Thank you Amok & Ivan (And Sun Tzu)

Escrito por Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

Escrito por Weisser Wolf, 07.04.2025 at 22:39

Dave,

I think it goes without saying at this point—everyone has already shared their thoughts on the current state of the game: the players you've refused to unban, the slow pace of improvements, and the steady decline in activity. However, I'd like to comment on one particular aspect.

A true leader knows when to acknowledge a mistake. And if you're looking for examples, some of the most respected CEOs—like those of Microsoft or Apple—have publicly admitted when they've made the wrong call. That's not weakness, that's humility. I say this with the utmost respect: I hope you take a moment to genuinely reflect.

Even users often labeled as toxic or disruptive—like Kaska—have recognized that the mass banning of players has gone too far. And honestly, if someone like me, who used to be known for toxic behavior in duels and clan wars, can admit it was time to grow up and stop playing the victim, I believe change is possible. I had to take a "forced vacation" myself, and I now recognize how counterproductive that attitude was.

As Kaska suggested, why not simply unban those users but mute them from everything except private messages? What real harm could they do? If you give them a second chance, many of them might return—and with them, activity could increase again. We could even experiment with fresh concepts: maybe an "ancient season," or a rotation of never-before-seen maps. As we all know, atWar has near-infinite creative potential.

And if time or resources are the problem, subcontracting is always an option. Outsourcing some work to experienced developers—say, from Mexico or India—could go a long way. Believe me, as a business and process consultant, I say this from experience.

As many have said, an event where you make Waffel super admin or I don't know, something innovative while simply AIing the game or fixing bugs in the maps. And on the topic of Lion nuking the discord, please Dave, it's not like it was the end of the world. I bet Croat or someone else who had the power to do that over a little tantrum could have done it.

It's time to move into the future, even games that were abandonware are reviving thanks to the community, you need a real community manager for the game and maybe, dedicate yourself to the technical, marketing and business issues of the game and believe me many people in the community would be happy to help as it was in that era when Alois and not a certain bug abuser was the head supporter.

I know I'm repeating things others have already pointed out, but I still felt it was worth adding my two cents to the conversation.

Escrito por LuciferStar, 07.04.2025 at 23:21

Well, this thread has certainly gained traction.

This is my (unwarranted?) two cents on the issue. Working in law has given me insight into the impulse to punish as a means of deterrence, which is entirely valid. Historically, punishment has been regarded as the most effective way to discourage unwanted behavior.

However, the legal system also incorporates statutes of limitations for good reason. If we imprisoned people indefinitely, our correctional facilities would quickly reach capacity.
After 4-5 years, it's reasonable to conclude that the point has been made. While punishments help maintain social order, second chances make our communities more humane and livable.

The competitive community is barely surviving, and realistically, extending second chances to players might breathe new life into what once united enthusiasts across the board. You can always reinstate bans if necessary, but taking a measured risk to improve the game's ecosystem seems like a reasonable gamble.

Consider that growth often comes from our willingness to reevaluate rigid positions. The strongest communities aren't those that punish forever, but those that create pathways for genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. At some point, we must ask ourselves what matters more: maintaining the permanence of old decisions or fostering an environment where people can demonstrate they've changed. The game's future might depend on our answer.

Escrito por Red.Army, 08.04.2025 at 06:54

They painting you out to be this evil guy who won't change his mind about banned players when it is simply not true. You and the mods didn't have to remove my permaban back during the pandemic, but you did

Escrito por 4nic Smith, 08.04.2025 at 09:53

Cmon Dave, do the right thing, its now or never, general pardon my friends, they dindu nothing, general pardon even xbugs just tie his hands so he wont hack anymore.

Escrito por clovis1122, 08.04.2025 at 14:14

Escrito por Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

I made the same mistake

I guess deep down, we'd like to believe we can solve differences through communication. And yet, that will just never work with some people. Identifying such people is a hard task... even after we decide to burn the bridge and cut ties, we're left wondering: had we communicated better... could we have settled our differences?

Escrito por 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

Escrito por 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Escrito por Dave, 08.04.2025 at 22:28

Escrito por 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information Tengri. I have not restored any accounts or sent any emails. They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Escrito por 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Good! That's the whole point.

Escrito por 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Escrito por Dave, 09.04.2025 at 01:15

Escrito por 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Did it look like this?



If so, that's just an automated message that happens when some wiseguy puts your username here:



It definitely wasn't from me.

Escrito por Dave, 08.04.2025 at 22:28

They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Escrito por Skittzophrenic, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

I've been on this game for over 13 years. I've made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies... and I miss both.

Escrito por Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

Escrito por Dave, 09.04.2025 at 14:58

Escrito por Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

There are people here who are mad at me because I'm not giving them what they want. According to them I'm an evil narcissist. So that's one possibility to explain my code of behavior.

Let me propose another possibility. I'm not going to tell you what to think -- all I ask is you consider the following, and then decide for yourself which explanation of my behavior best fits reality.

Maybe I'm not an egoist, or a narcissist, or even a bad guy at all.
Maybe I do care about atWar, and feel obligated to protect it / preserve it.
Maybe I really do believe that removing those people from the community was a net positive for atWar.
Maybe I reject the argument to "unban", not because I'm not hearing what people are saying, but because I believe it would be a mistake.
Maybe I think that less activity is preferable to bad activity.
Maybe I think we are actually better off this way.

I choose to answer you this because you seem like somebody who is rational and open to listening. Take from that what you will.

Escrito por Khauman, 09.04.2025 at 15:47

Both sides think they're too good to change, truly a sad thing to see. On the one hand the banned players can't stop being obsessed and toxic towards Dave. And Dave is hardstuck on the idea that unbanning is wrong. I'm not saynig either side is right but if only there were a solution that both could apoligize and both could work together to please both sides, I could definitely work towards mending a deal or helping in any way.

Escrito por YourSphinx, 09.04.2025 at 19:39

The issue is there's no single goal here, the constant moving of goal posts from the players, no congruent plan. Players need to understand they can cry as hard as they want and there's some things that will not change and rightly so.

And from Dave's end I guess, he hasn't concretely specified on who's banned forever and who's not, there seems to be some level of wiggle room for some and none for others, which is understandable.

I have no dog in this fight anymore.

I just hope both sides have fun.