Who is modding the mods?

Ok I am writing this not to encourage berating the mod team, more to seek clarification on moderator roles and how decisions are made. After seeing topics raised and people complaining to me, I believe the community as a whole would benefit if there was a set protocol for moderators to follow before muting or banning. I know mods are only human and prone to mistakes just like anybody else, however this should not reflect professional conduct over in game relationships. After all, premium players pay hard earned cash to play this game at a serious level.

Q1 -- What evidence should be provided before a player is muted/banned?
Currently a mod can mute a player with no explanation. This understandably can be confusing and even unfair on players who are innocent of any wrongdoing, also this devalues the rehabilitation process the punishment is set to serve, as the player might not even know the reason for the mute or ban.

Q2 -- How many warnings are given to player before they are muted/banned?
Banning or muting player's are decisions that should not be taken lightly, and as standard there should be a minimum level of warnings given before a player is muted, as well as approval from 2 other randomly selected mods. In certain situations where extreme abuse of channels exist, I agree mods should have the right to instantly mute, but again this should not conflict with Q1 above.

Q3 -- What measures are taken to prevent in-game relationships affecting a mods professional conduct?
Mods are only human as I say, and I can understand a mod not wanting to mute a friend and more likely to mute a player they personally see as a negative contribution to the community, that is understandable. When there is only 1 mod online, the situation can unfairly place the mod in the middle of friendship and moderation. The simple solution to this is have more active mods who can deliberate decisions before drawing a conclusion on any further action.

This article is in no way meant to take anything away from the great contributions moderators already make to the community, without them the game would be impossible to play. In my experience mods are always helpful and pleasant to deal with. Just the current system does need updating.

If anyone wishes to comment on this topic, please do not misuse this topic by listing personal vendettas against mods. Only constructive feedback PLS

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes! SUPPORT

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q1 -- What evidence should be provided before a player is muted/banned?
Currently a mod can mute a player with no explanation. This understandably can be confusing and even unfair on players who are innocent of any wrongdoing, also this devalues the rehabilitation process the punishment is set to serve, as the player might not even know the reason for the mute or ban.

A mod can't mute a player without explanation. If muted/banned from the website they normally have a reason or proof attached with the ban. If a mod has muted/banned for no reason you should report it to another mod you trust, pitty forum post just make you look like the bad guy.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q2 -- How many warnings are given to player before they are muted/banned?
Banning or muting player's are decisions that should not be taken lightly, and as standard there should be a minimum level of warnings given before a player is muted, as well as approval from 2 other randomly selected mods. In certain situations where extreme abuse of channels exist, I agree mods should have the right to instantly mute, but again this should not conflict with Q1 above.

Normally if a player is muted without warning it is because he/she is a repeated offender. Mods find it unnecessary to warn such player because they were already warned before or should already know what they are doing is against the rules. I believe they still maintain a "Problem Player of the Month" list. Besides normally warning are given verbally and not by the click of a button.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q3 -- What measures are taken to prevent in-game relationships affecting a mods professional conduct?
Mods are only human as I say, and I can understand a mod not wanting to mute a friend and more likely to mute a player they personally see as a negative contribution to the community, that is understandable. When there is only 1 mod online, the situation can unfairly place the mod in the middle of friendship and moderation. The simple solution to this is have more active mods who can deliberate decisions before drawing a conclusion on any further action.

Like you said this cannot be avoided. Mods are only human and certain biases might cloud their judgment. Your only option is to gather evidence and consult another mod. If sufficient evidence is given a mod might overrule a mods decision.

Escrito por Meester, 14.12.2014 at 18:17

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q1 -- What evidence should be provided before a player is muted/banned?
Currently a mod can mute a player with no explanation. This understandably can be confusing and even unfair on players who are innocent of any wrongdoing, also this devalues the rehabilitation process the punishment is set to serve, as the player might not even know the reason for the mute or ban.

A mod can't mute a player without explanation. If muted/banned from the website they normally have a reason or proof attached with the ban. If a mod has muted/banned for no reason you should report it to another mod you trust, pitty forum post just make you look like the bad guy.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q2 -- How many warnings are given to player before they are muted/banned?
Banning or muting player's are decisions that should not be taken lightly, and as standard there should be a minimum level of warnings given before a player is muted, as well as approval from 2 other randomly selected mods. In certain situations where extreme abuse of channels exist, I agree mods should have the right to instantly mute, but again this should not conflict with Q1 above.

Normally if a player is muted without warning it is because he/she is a repeated offender. Mods find it unnecessary to warn such player because they were already warned before or should already know what they are doing is against the rules. I believe they still maintain a "Problem Player of the Month" list. Besides normally warning are given verbally and not by the click of a button.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q3 -- What measures are taken to prevent in-game relationships affecting a mods professional conduct?
Mods are only human as I say, and I can understand a mod not wanting to mute a friend and more likely to mute a player they personally see as a negative contribution to the community, that is understandable. When there is only 1 mod online, the situation can unfairly place the mod in the middle of friendship and moderation. The simple solution to this is have more active mods who can deliberate decisions before drawing a conclusion on any further action.

Like you said this cannot be avoided. Mods are only human and certain biases might cloud their judgment. Your only option is to gather evidence and consult another mod. If sufficient evidence is given a mod might overrule a mods decision.

I asked acqui the mod who muted me for 1440 for doing nothing (With screenshot attached) He said there is no rule for him to give me why he muted me. Thats just food for though. Ivan responded with a good response. Also devil unmuted me. So, I guess I can't complain that there are good guys out there.

Escrito por Meester, 14.12.2014 at 18:17

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q1 -- What evidence should be provided before a player is muted/banned?
Currently a mod can mute a player with no explanation. This understandably can be confusing and even unfair on players who are innocent of any wrongdoing, also this devalues the rehabilitation process the punishment is set to serve, as the player might not even know the reason for the mute or ban.

A mod can't mute a player without explanation. If muted/banned from the website they normally have a reason or proof attached with the ban. If a mod has muted/banned for no reason you should report it to another mod you trust, pitty forum post just make you look like the bad guy.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q2 -- How many warnings are given to player before they are muted/banned?
Banning or muting player's are decisions that should not be taken lightly, and as standard there should be a minimum level of warnings given before a player is muted, as well as approval from 2 other randomly selected mods. In certain situations where extreme abuse of channels exist, I agree mods should have the right to instantly mute, but again this should not conflict with Q1 above.

Normally if a player is muted without warning it is because he/she is a repeated offender. Mods find it unnecessary to warn such player because they were already warned before or should already know what they are doing is against the rules. I believe they still maintain a "Problem Player of the Month" list. Besides normally warning are given verbally and not by the click of a button.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q3 -- What measures are taken to prevent in-game relationships affecting a mods professional conduct?
Mods are only human as I say, and I can understand a mod not wanting to mute a friend and more likely to mute a player they personally see as a negative contribution to the community, that is understandable. When there is only 1 mod online, the situation can unfairly place the mod in the middle of friendship and moderation. The simple solution to this is have more active mods who can deliberate decisions before drawing a conclusion on any further action.

Like you said this cannot be avoided. Mods are only human and certain biases might cloud their judgment. Your only option is to gather evidence and consult another mod. If sufficient evidence is given a mod might overrule a mods decision.

I think i know who is Problem player of the month.....for every month. Lol

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 18:38

Escrito por Meester, 14.12.2014 at 18:17

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q1 -- What evidence should be provided before a player is muted/banned?
Currently a mod can mute a player with no explanation. This understandably can be confusing and even unfair on players who are innocent of any wrongdoing, also this devalues the rehabilitation process the punishment is set to serve, as the player might not even know the reason for the mute or ban.

A mod can't mute a player without explanation. If muted/banned from the website they normally have a reason or proof attached with the ban. If a mod has muted/banned for no reason you should report it to another mod you trust, pitty forum post just make you look like the bad guy.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q2 -- How many warnings are given to player before they are muted/banned?
Banning or muting player's are decisions that should not be taken lightly, and as standard there should be a minimum level of warnings given before a player is muted, as well as approval from 2 other randomly selected mods. In certain situations where extreme abuse of channels exist, I agree mods should have the right to instantly mute, but again this should not conflict with Q1 above.

Normally if a player is muted without warning it is because he/she is a repeated offender. Mods find it unnecessary to warn such player because they were already warned before or should already know what they are doing is against the rules. I believe they still maintain a "Problem Player of the Month" list. Besides normally warning are given verbally and not by the click of a button.

Escrito por Sun Tsu, 14.12.2014 at 15:31

Q3 -- What measures are taken to prevent in-game relationships affecting a mods professional conduct?
Mods are only human as I say, and I can understand a mod not wanting to mute a friend and more likely to mute a player they personally see as a negative contribution to the community, that is understandable. When there is only 1 mod online, the situation can unfairly place the mod in the middle of friendship and moderation. The simple solution to this is have more active mods who can deliberate decisions before drawing a conclusion on any further action.

Like you said this cannot be avoided. Mods are only human and certain biases might cloud their judgment. Your only option is to gather evidence and consult another mod. If sufficient evidence is given a mod might overrule a mods decision.

I asked acqui the mod who muted me for 1440 for doing nothing (With screenshot attached) He said there is no rule for him to give me why he muted me. Thats just food for though. Ivan responded with a good response. Also devil unmuted me. So, I guess I can't complain that there are good guys out there.

I think dirk would agree with you...btw sex? Lolol

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 18:38

I asked acqui the mod who muted me for 1440 for doing nothing (With screenshot attached) He said there is no rule for him to give me why he muted me. Thats just food for though. Ivan responded with a good response. Also devil unmuted me. So, I guess I can't complain that there are good guys out there.

1. Devil did not unmute you. This is a lie and I have the mod logs to prove it.
2. Ivan agreed that my muting you was more than justified.

Do us all a favor and stop spreading lies in game and on the forums.

As I mentioned in the post this was certainly not meant to turn into some kind of argument or mod hunt, perhaps inevitable given the nature of the topic, however please keep to the topic and keep dialogue constructive, thanks

Escrito por Acquiesce, 14.12.2014 at 20:10

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 18:38

I asked acqui the mod who muted me for 1440 for doing nothing (With screenshot attached) He said there is no rule for him to give me why he muted me. Thats just food for though. Ivan responded with a good response. Also devil unmuted me. So, I guess I can't complain that there are good guys out there.

1. Devil did not unmute you. This is a lie and I have the mod logs to prove it.
2. Ivan agreed that my muting you was more than justified.

Do us all a favor and stop spreading lies in game and on the forums.

I have mod logs to prove you're bias to illyria? But what's the point of that.

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

Call me an idealist or whatever, but I think that the current system of appeal is kind of flawed.

Personally, I think if a player protests moderator action against them to another moderator, the burden of proof must lie on the moderator who took that action, not on the player being punished.

But... ah well. I'm clearly the minority opinion here.

Escrito por International, 14.12.2014 at 21:34

Call me an idealist or whatever, but I think that the current system of appeal is kind of flawed.

Personally, I think if a player protests moderator action against them to another moderator, the burden of proof must lie on the moderator who took that action, not on the player being punished.

But... ah well. I'm clearly the minority opinion here.

I think its fine.

Tbh, I'm surprised aqui did mute mou on such terms, I don't know him tht well, but one game I did play with aqui, he was a respectable guy. Mods are doing their job just fine, and I think pointless arguing about mods needs to stop. I've been muted, and rightfully so by my old clan member Desu for global abuse, while I was in SM even haha. But I was abusing, and he had already given verbal warning. Honestly, everyone shut up, play the game, stay out of politics, and let them do their job. End of discussion

Escrito por Sultan of Swing, 14.12.2014 at 21:52

Honestly, everyone shut up, play the game, stay out of politics, and let them do their job. End of discussion

You can never keep me out of politics! Never!
Kakakaka......

Also, all this arguing isn't pointless. Public scrutiny has a history of keeping politicians so very well in line.

Escrito por International, 14.12.2014 at 21:56

Escrito por Sultan of Swing, 14.12.2014 at 21:52

Honestly, everyone shut up, play the game, stay out of politics, and let them do their job. End of discussion

You can never keep me out of politics! Never!
Kakakaka......

Agh.. Heheh

Escrito por Sultan of Swing, 14.12.2014 at 21:52

Escrito por International, 14.12.2014 at 21:34

Call me an idealist or whatever, but I think that the current system of appeal is kind of flawed.

Personally, I think if a player protests moderator action against them to another moderator, the burden of proof must lie on the moderator who took that action, not on the player being punished.

But... ah well. I'm clearly the minority opinion here.

I think its fine.

Tbh, I'm surprised aqui did mute mou on such terms, I don't know him tht well, but one game I did play with aqui, he was a respectable guy. Mods are doing their job just fine, and I think pointless arguing about mods needs to stop. I've been muted, and rightfully so by my old clan member Desu for global abuse, while I was in SM even haha. But I was abusing, and he had already given verbal warning. Honestly, everyone shut up, play the game, stay out of politics, and let them do their job. End of discussion

'Stay out of politics' ideally yes, but decisions that affect the community should be fairly adhered too with every player being treat equally and the same, all I am doing is relaying players grievances in the politest possible way, as many players believe this isn't standard currently.

And all im saying is this. If you have commited a rule break in the past, especially those who have done it repeatedly, the mods will target more than those who don't. Sometimes punishments might seem unfair to you because your intentions were not one way, but might have appeared another way to a mod. I truly think mods are doing their job just fine, and we should let them do it better by not distracting with discussions like these.

Edit: I had another full three paragraphs typed out until phone froze on me... BLA

Escrito por Acquiesce, 14.12.2014 at 20:10

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 18:38

I asked acqui the mod who muted me for 1440 for doing nothing (With screenshot attached) He said there is no rule for him to give me why he muted me. Thats just food for though. Ivan responded with a good response. Also devil unmuted me. So, I guess I can't complain that there are good guys out there.

1. Devil did not unmute you. This is a lie and I have the mod logs to prove it.
2. Ivan agreed that my muting you was more than justified.

Do us all a favor and stop spreading lies in game and on the forums.

support

Citação:

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself.

Please stop lying in the name of deviL. Actually stop bringing him on this topic, we all know he is not the type of person that would un-mute without any resolution. Whatever, I don't care. Stop talking about deviL. You don't have the right for do it.

On Topic: The problem can be resolved easy if you just use the /report function more often. If you consider there is a mod that act different toward his clan mates / friends, still, use /report. If he let it go then other mod will just pick up the report and take actions.

I am used to report a lot, and therefore I also ask a lot to moderators such as Columna and Desu when they reject my reports. Simply as it. Until now I haven't got any kind of biased response, but if for some reason they do I would just ask another moderator. There is no need of flaming war... I am telling you this by experience.

Rather than a revolution or riot, better try to change the system by inside. There is one mod trying to do it already

EDIT: maybe this link is useful... http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=15088

Actually, the anti-mod posts have decreased since Vril left

Escrito por Ferlucci1389, 14.12.2014 at 15:44

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes! SUPPORT

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 20:48

I have mod logs to prove you're bias to illyria? But what's the point of that.

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

i like how you derailed this thread with yet another attempt at publicly discrediting acqui and when he defends himself you're suddenly the pinnacle of forum decorum advising him not to go offtopic.

also third time youve been caught lying publicly. Congrats.

Escrito por clovis1122, 15.12.2014 at 20:45

Citação:

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself.

Please stop lying in the name of deviL. Actually stop bringing him on this topic, we all know he is not the type of person that would un-mute without any resolution. Whatever, I don't care. Stop talking about deviL. You don't have the right for do it.

On Topic: The problem can be resolved easy if you just use the /report function more often. If you consider there is a mod that act different toward his clan mates / friends, still, use /report. If he let it go then other mod will just pick up the report and take actions.

I am used to report a lot, and therefore I also ask a lot to moderators such as Columna and Desu when they reject my reports. Simply as it. Until now I haven't got any kind of biased response, but if for some reason they do I would just ask another moderator. There is no need of flaming war... I am telling you this by experience.

Rather than a revolution or riot, better try to change the system by inside. There is one mod trying to do it already

EDIT: maybe this link is useful... http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=15088

Okey, so this discussion is between MOU and acq, thats 1 reason for you to stay out of it. Second reason is, mou already said here I quote him:

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 20:48

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

Then you start the ''ontopic'' thing to justify what you just said before, thats like people abusing global and then ending with ''CW?"'
And then worse of all, you justify this whole comment of yours and end it with some thread off yours to get some publicity...

You started the flamewar once again, thankgod mou was mature enough to not respond to you.
Clovis next time don't be selfish when you cry on your own threads when people disagree with 'stop ruining my posts''

Oh and to do what you just did:

On Topic: This thread is like one of the thousand treads made about mods, mods are biased thats a fact. Live with it or not, you can leave the game and just start another one. And tsun, you said talk tp another mod, but most mods back eachother up. (atleast what i think of my experiences with mods)

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 20:48

I have mod logs to prove you're bias to illyria? But what's the point of that.

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

go go mou

Escrito por Waffel, 16.12.2014 at 08:37

Escrito por clovis1122, 15.12.2014 at 20:45

Citação:

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself.

Please stop lying in the name of deviL. Actually stop bringing him on this topic, we all know he is not the type of person that would un-mute without any resolution. Whatever, I don't care. Stop talking about deviL. You don't have the right for do it.

On Topic: The problem can be resolved easy if you just use the /report function more often. If you consider there is a mod that act different toward his clan mates / friends, still, use /report. If he let it go then other mod will just pick up the report and take actions.

I am used to report a lot, and therefore I also ask a lot to moderators such as Columna and Desu when they reject my reports. Simply as it. Until now I haven't got any kind of biased response, but if for some reason they do I would just ask another moderator. There is no need of flaming war... I am telling you this by experience.

Rather than a revolution or riot, better try to change the system by inside. There is one mod trying to do it already

EDIT: maybe this link is useful... http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=15088

Okey, so this discussion is between MOU and acq, thats 1 reason for you to stay out of it. Second reason is, mou already said here I quote him:

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 20:48

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

Then you start the ''ontopic'' thing to justify what you just said before, thats like people abusing global and then ending with ''CW?"'
And then worse of all, you justify this whole comment of yours and end it with some thread off yours to get some publicity...

You started the flamewar once again, thankgod mou was mature enough to not respond to you.
Clovis next time don't be selfish when you cry on your own threads when people disagree with 'stop ruining my posts''

Oh and to do what you just did:

On Topic: This thread is like one of the thousand treads made about mods, mods are biased thats a fact. Live with it or not, you can leave the game and just start another one. And tsun, you said talk tp another mod, but most mods back eachother up. (atleast what i think of my experiences with mods)

waffels stop shiting all around threads just because you want to get back on clovis.Clovis made a good case and provided us with his opinion.all you did was flaming him.not cool.be constructive or keep silent.

Escrito por Trooper21, 16.12.2014 at 08:51

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 20:48

I have mod logs to prove you're bias to illyria? But what's the point of that.

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

go go mou

go do some meth fagit

Escrito por Khal.eesi, 16.12.2014 at 09:11

Escrito por Waffel, 16.12.2014 at 08:37

Escrito por clovis1122, 15.12.2014 at 20:45

Citação:

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself.

Please stop lying in the name of deviL. Actually stop bringing him on this topic, we all know he is not the type of person that would un-mute without any resolution. Whatever, I don't care. Stop talking about deviL. You don't have the right for do it.

On Topic: The problem can be resolved easy if you just use the /report function more often. If you consider there is a mod that act different toward his clan mates / friends, still, use /report. If he let it go then other mod will just pick up the report and take actions.

I am used to report a lot, and therefore I also ask a lot to moderators such as Columna and Desu when they reject my reports. Simply as it. Until now I haven't got any kind of biased response, but if for some reason they do I would just ask another moderator. There is no need of flaming war... I am telling you this by experience.

Rather than a revolution or riot, better try to change the system by inside. There is one mod trying to do it already

EDIT: maybe this link is useful... http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=15088

Okey, so this discussion is between MOU and acq, thats 1 reason for you to stay out of it. Second reason is, mou already said here I quote him:

Escrito por Mr_Own_U, 14.12.2014 at 20:48

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself. Out of a respect for Sun Tsu acqui, let's not go off topic. If you have a problem with me you can PM me. Thanks.

Then you start the ''ontopic'' thing to justify what you just said before, thats like people abusing global and then ending with ''CW?"'
And then worse of all, you justify this whole comment of yours and end it with some thread off yours to get some publicity...

You started the flamewar once again, thankgod mou was mature enough to not respond to you.
Clovis next time don't be selfish when you cry on your own threads when people disagree with 'stop ruining my posts''

Oh and to do what you just did:

On Topic: This thread is like one of the thousand treads made about mods, mods are biased thats a fact. Live with it or not, you can leave the game and just start another one. And tsun, you said talk tp another mod, but most mods back eachother up. (atleast what i think of my experiences with mods)

waffels stop shiting all around threads just because you want to get back on clovis.Clovis made a good case and provided us with his opinion.all you did was flaming him.not cool.be constructive or keep silent.

He tried to start a flamewar and then walk out of it. U call this good? Nice logic khal.

Escrito por Waffel, 16.12.2014 at 09:13

He tried to start a flamewar and then walk out of it. U call this good? Nice logic khal.

how exactly did he tried to start a flamewar?he was totally respectfull and polite.How was his post, an attempt to start a flamewar.Please enlighten us, i would like to see how your brain works.

Escrito por Khal.eesi, 16.12.2014 at 09:16

Escrito por Waffel, 16.12.2014 at 09:13

He tried to start a flamewar and then walk out of it. U call this good? Nice logic khal.

how exactly did he tried to start a flamewar?he was totally respectfull and polite.How was his post, an attempt to start a flamewar.Please enlighten us, i would like to see how your brain works.

Maybe if you read? Now I am not gonna comment anymore because now you guys obviously will blame me.

Escrito por clovis1122, 15.12.2014 at 20:45

Citação:

Also devil did unmute me, and you can ask him yourself.

Please stop lying in the name of deviL. Actually stop bringing him on this topic, we all know he is not the type of person that would un-mute without any resolution. Whatever, I don't care. Stop talking about deviL. You don't have the right for do it.

Escrito por Khal.eesi, 16.12.2014 at 09:12

go do some meth fagit

wud u like to join me

Escrito por Trooper21, 16.12.2014 at 09:26

Escrito por Khal.eesi, 16.12.2014 at 09:12

go do some meth fagit

wud u like to join me

Classic trooper trolling forums