Reduction in RNG Discussion

I would only support tapering the chance of tbs at the very low end, we need that unpredictability to keep some skill in the gameplay.

The tb situation i am not too concerned about, i would like to see the stabilisation on the rolls though.

Escrito por The Tactician, 20.12.2015 at 02:13

blitz: Weak. In fact, pitiful slowrolling. One of the funnest strats, but can't hold anything. Was OP before and got nerfed, and I believe it would require a slight boost back.

just to nitpick, blitz was not nerfed. Ivan removed the city defence bonus on infantry, however only a few weeks ago we learned that that never existed in the first place. However many of the other strats have been made more powerful so its not much of an issue.

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 08:40

Escrito por The Tactician, 20.12.2015 at 02:13

blitz: Weak. In fact, pitiful slowrolling. One of the funnest strats, but can't hold anything. Was OP before and got nerfed, and I believe it would require a slight boost back.

just to nitpick, blitz was not nerfed. Ivan removed the city defence bonus on infantry, however only a few weeks ago we learned that that never existed in the first place

It has been always funny to me to see how they stopped after it. You made them believe that Blitz was weaker, and they did it.

Now blitz infantries have 4 defense. Killing them is as easy as killing militias with +5 critical. You don't even need fully 2:1 to beat them... Here is where you see that we were right about it.

Escrito por clovis1122, 20.12.2015 at 08:47

Now blitz infantries have 4 defense.

*5 defence

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 08:49

*5 defence

Pretty sure it's 4

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 08:49

Escrito por clovis1122, 20.12.2015 at 08:47

Now blitz infantries have 4 defense.

*5 defence

How can you even think they're not nerfed after playing it so many times and noticing the rolls go significantly your way against them?

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 10:37

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 08:49

Escrito por clovis1122, 20.12.2015 at 08:47

Now blitz infantries have 4 defense.

*5 defence

How can you even think they're not nerfed after playing it so many times and noticing the rolls go significantly your way against them?

i didnt realise a negative buff had been applied to cities, they still have 5 defence in the open, its just in cities. Doesnt matter though, people are still playing blitz pretty effectively.

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 10:42

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 10:37

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 08:49

Escrito por clovis1122, 20.12.2015 at 08:47

Now blitz infantries have 4 defense.

*5 defence

How can you even think they're not nerfed after playing it so many times and noticing the rolls go significantly your way against them?

i didnt realise a negative buff had been applied to cities, they still have 5 defence in the open, its just in cities. Doesnt matter though, people are still playing blitz pretty effectively.

Hi

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 10:42

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 10:37

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 08:49

Escrito por clovis1122, 20.12.2015 at 08:47

Now blitz infantries have 4 defense.

*5 defence

How can you even think they're not nerfed after playing it so many times and noticing the rolls go significantly your way against them?

i didnt realise a negative buff had been applied to cities, they still have 5 defence in the open, its just in cities. Doesnt matter though, people are still playing blitz pretty effectively.

When are we ever going to leave a stack in the open?
Blitz is not as playable as it once was either. Do you even play these strategies to test them after you've made changes, or do you just go with what you think is best and say "fuck everyone else" it can stay that way?

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:09

When are we ever going to leave a stack in the open?
Blitz is not as playable as it once was either. Do you even play these strategies to test them after you've made changes, or do you just go with what you think is best and say "fuck everyone else" it can stay that way?

Blitz was initially intorduced as -2 defence to all units. I played it during this period as my number 1 strat. It was very popular even then due to how easy it was to play. Tops halved the nerf and then its became overpowered. You could play blitz from 3k up to 50k. You could even blitz slowroll on africa against imp and gw. Its' low defence was substituted by its huge range, you could bring more units to defend and take advantage of the stacking effect. It was nerfed to infantry and that nerf remains.

Blitz is still extremely playable, anywhere. Its now plays like it was intended, powerful offence weak defence. It is the 2nd lowest skill strat after RA. It should never go back to what it was. The players who rank ra and blitz as their top strats after rank 8 are generally terrible at everything else. I hope never to see atwar return to that. Where you can't even join a 3k game without a blitz player firing all their units into your expansion and hoping for the best, and worse it being a super effective way of playing. There were even players jumping into 1500+ elo purely from blitz gameplay. Watching them play anything else was extremely disappointing.

This being said, strats like imp and gw have received defensive boosts since the nerf, it may not be as devastating as it once was to retore blitz inf to 5 defence. I am wary though.

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 11:22

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:09

When are we ever going to leave a stack in the open?
Blitz is not as playable as it once was either. Do you even play these strategies to test them after you've made changes, or do you just go with what you think is best and say "fuck everyone else" it can stay that way?

Blitz was initially intorduced as -2 defence to all units. I played it during this period as my number 1 strat. It was very popular even then due to how easy it was to play. Tops halved the nerf and then its became overpowered. You could play blitz from 3k up to 50k. You could even blitz slowroll on africa against imp and gw. Its' low defence was substituted by its huge range, you could bring more units to defend and take advantage of the stacking effect. It was nerfed to infantry and that nerf remains.

Blitz is still extremely playable, anywhere. Its now plays like it was intended, powerful offence weak defence. It is the 2nd lowest skill strat after RA. It should never go back to what it was. The players who rank ra and blitz as their top strats after rank 8 are generally terrible at everything else. I hope never to see atwar return to that. Where you can't even join a 3k game without a blitz player firing all their units into your expansion and hoping for the best, and worse it being a super effective way of playing. There were even players jumping into 1500+ elo purely from blitz gameplay. Watching them play anything else was extremely disappointing.

This being said, strats like imp and gw have received defensive boosts since the nerf, it may not be as devastating as it once was to retore blitz inf to 5 defence. I am wary though.

I agree, Blitz is a low skill strat, but it's fun to play.. and thats what people come back for, the priority for this game right now should not be to satisfy the established (declining) playerbase. but to entice newer members by making the game enjoyable for them. This is where my argument for RA comes from too, I'ts not hard to spam tanks and compete with skilled players... but it shouldn't be. Otherwise the game is more pay to win and not an enjoyable experience for non premium players.

Trying out 5 defense would be very nice to see, even if you decide to revert back to 4 afterwards because it doesn't work out... Although I do think 5 is justified and if you're going to nerf them further, give them a -1 defense vs tanks instead.

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:41

I agree, Blitz is a low skill strat, but it's fun to play.. and thats what people come back for, the priority for this game right now should not be to satisfy the established (declining) playerbase. but to entice newer members by making the game enjoyable for them. This is where my argument for RA comes from too, I'ts not hard to spam tanks and compete with skilled players... but it shouldn't be. Otherwise the game is more pay to win and not an enjoyable experience for non premium players.

Trying out 5 defense would be very nice to see, even if you decide to revert back to 4 afterwards because it doesn't work out... Although I do think 5 is justified and if you're going to nerf them further, give them a -1 defense vs tanks instead.

That doesn't make sense. No new player has any interest in the strat dynamic at a higher level. Blitz was boosted when i was a r6 and i didnt even notice. Don't worry phoenix, the priority is ofc enticing new players.

"boost/dont nerf blitz/ra its' my favourite strat" said no r1-5 on the forums in the history of the game ever.

The fun argument has always come from those high ranks who miss the power of the strategy which gave them some level of a shot at beating actually skilled players. This is the sorry truth of it. Ofc its not fun to lose all the time.

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 11:57

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:41

I agree, Blitz is a low skill strat, but it's fun to play.. and thats what people come back for, the priority for this game right now should not be to satisfy the established (declining) playerbase. but to entice newer members by making the game enjoyable for them. This is where my argument for RA comes from too, I'ts not hard to spam tanks and compete with skilled players... but it shouldn't be. Otherwise the game is more pay to win and not an enjoyable experience for non premium players.

Trying out 5 defense would be very nice to see, even if you decide to revert back to 4 afterwards because it doesn't work out... Although I do think 5 is justified and if you're going to nerf them further, give them a -1 defense vs tanks instead.

That doesn't make sense. No new player has any interest in the strat dynamic at a higher level. Blitz was boosted when i was a r6 and i didnt even notice. Don't worry phoenix, the priority is ofc enticing new players.

"boost/dont nerf blitz/ra its' my favourite strat" said no r1-5 on the forums in the history of the game ever.

The fun argument has always come from those high ranks who miss the power of the strategy which gave them some level of a shot at beating actually skilled players. This is the sorry truth of it. Ofc its not fun to lose all the time.

Lower ranks hardly comment in forums because they dont understand how the forums work..../are too new to the game and are more concerned with figuring out how to make a 3 man wall.

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 11:22

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:09

When are we ever going to leave a stack in the open?
Blitz is not as playable as it once was either. Do you even play these strategies to test them after you've made changes, or do you just go with what you think is best and say "fuck everyone else" it can stay that way?

Blitz was initially intorduced as -2 defence to all units. I played it during this period as my number 1 strat.
...

To be faired, you played it with the old TB system, which is what I did as well. The mov made it a really good strat with the old tb system.

I wouldn't considered it a low skill strat, because you have to be smart with attack and defense and block your opponent mov. Because we all know blitz can't defend in the old fashion way

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:41

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 11:22

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:09

When are we ever going to leave a stack in the open?
Blitz is not as playable as it once was either. Do you even play these strategies to test them after you've made changes, or do you just go with what you think is best and say "fuck everyone else" it can stay that way?

Blitz was initially intorduced as -2 defence to all units. I played it during this period as my number 1 strat. It was very popular even then due to how easy it was to play. Tops halved the nerf and then its became overpowered. You could play blitz from 3k up to 50k. You could even blitz slowroll on africa against imp and gw. Its' low defence was substituted by its huge range, you could bring more units to defend and take advantage of the stacking effect. It was nerfed to infantry and that nerf remains.

Blitz is still extremely playable, anywhere. Its now plays like it was intended, powerful offence weak defence. It is the 2nd lowest skill strat after RA. It should never go back to what it was. The players who rank ra and blitz as their top strats after rank 8 are generally terrible at everything else. I hope never to see atwar return to that. Where you can't even join a 3k game without a blitz player firing all their units into your expansion and hoping for the best, and worse it being a super effective way of playing. There were even players jumping into 1500+ elo purely from blitz gameplay. Watching them play anything else was extremely disappointing.

This being said, strats like imp and gw have received defensive boosts since the nerf, it may not be as devastating as it once was to retore blitz inf to 5 defence. I am wary though.

give them a -1 defense vs tanks instead.

wot, surely it should be vs inf not tanks, seeing as tanks are the higher attack unit...

Escrito por Xenosapien, 20.12.2015 at 18:12

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:41

Escrito por Permamuted, 20.12.2015 at 11:22

Escrito por Phoenix, 20.12.2015 at 11:09

When are we ever going to leave a stack in the open?
Blitz is not as playable as it once was either. Do you even play these strategies to test them after you've made changes, or do you just go with what you think is best and say "fuck everyone else" it can stay that way?

Blitz was initially intorduced as -2 defence to all units. I played it during this period as my number 1 strat. It was very popular even then due to how easy it was to play. Tops halved the nerf and then its became overpowered. You could play blitz from 3k up to 50k. You could even blitz slowroll on africa against imp and gw. Its' low defence was substituted by its huge range, you could bring more units to defend and take advantage of the stacking effect. It was nerfed to infantry and that nerf remains.

Blitz is still extremely playable, anywhere. Its now plays like it was intended, powerful offence weak defence. It is the 2nd lowest skill strat after RA. It should never go back to what it was. The players who rank ra and blitz as their top strats after rank 8 are generally terrible at everything else. I hope never to see atwar return to that. Where you can't even join a 3k game without a blitz player firing all their units into your expansion and hoping for the best, and worse it being a super effective way of playing. There were even players jumping into 1500+ elo purely from blitz gameplay. Watching them play anything else was extremely disappointing.

This being said, strats like imp and gw have received defensive boosts since the nerf, it may not be as devastating as it once was to retore blitz inf to 5 defence. I am wary though.

give them a -1 defense vs tanks instead.

wot, surely it should be vs inf not tanks, seeing as tanks are the higher attack unit...

Its the closest thing you can get to 4.5 defense. At current they're too weak. And tanks are used far less in competitive games and cost more to make. So yes actually. -1. Vs tanks is pretty reasonable.. Vs inf.. The most commonly produced unit you may aswell leave it at 4 defense

Blitz needs a slight boost, again, pitiful slowrolling. It's a hit and run strat that simply cannot continue hitting and running after a certain time. Trust me, I've played blitz Volga in 5k games and then end up losing a 2v1 to some noobs because they throw their RA tanks at the front line. I defend once, twice, but how long can it last? They have OP west funds and tanks that would melt my inf. Same situation against DS. Except DS only needs a 1v1 situation and fries you instantly.

I get that it's not really supposed to be a slowroll strat, and I'm not asking for that, but I'm asking for it to be able to continue hitting and running without getting decimated to a few tanks or helis. On the contrary to Phoenix, I believe it needs a boost against offensive units. EU 3v3 is a very specific case you're looking at and most other games people can afford to use many offensive units early on. Remove the nerf on city defense, and make it -1 against infantry and militia.

Escrito por The Tactician, 21.12.2015 at 02:17

Blitz needs a slight boost, again, pitiful slowrolling. It's a hit and run strat that simply cannot continue hitting and running after a certain time. Trust me, I've played blitz Volga in 5k games and then end up losing a 2v1 to some noobs because they throw their RA tanks at the front line. I defend once, twice, but how long can it last? They have OP west funds and tanks that would melt my inf. Same situation against DS. Except DS only needs a 1v1 situation and fries you instantly.

I get that it's not really supposed to be a slowroll strat, and I'm not asking for that, but I'm asking for it to be able to continue hitting and running without getting decimated to a few tanks or helis. On the contrary to Phoenix, I believe it needs a boost against offensive units. EU 3v3 is a very specific case you're looking at and most other games people can afford to use many offensive units early on. Remove the nerf on city defense, and make it -1 against infantry and militia.

Agree with you apart from that bit about inf and militia.

Either way...

If its getting a boost it should just be given 5 defense on the inf and if its considered too strong again leave it to mods to rethink.

@Clovis in this thread xaxa

Escrito por Permamuted, 26.07.2015 at 07:35

"inverse rankism" lol.

> makes guides on europe+
> tries to convince us he knows what hes talking about when it comes to the metagame.
> thinks hes the king of adapting and map/setting diversity.
> makes thread asking for italy expansions after playing eu for 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years!
> rank 12

I talked to amok about the changes to the roll system. He confirmed the current system involves just 1 roll clovis.



He's not too into the whole idea. The current system is quite complicated and he is reluctant to tinker with it. Att/def values were determined by 2 rolls and the average of the 2 in the past however this was changed when hp was introduced. Amok told me he hoped this would lower the variance.

But basically with the current system, the higher a units stats go the less effective further increases are. Anyone any ideas on how to convince him on this or is it worth pursuing

Escrito por Permamuted, 25.12.2015 at 19:49

Anyone any ideas on how to convince him on this or is it worth pursuing

Use one of your motivation memes!

Quite surprised that he doesn't want to implement it though, would remove one of the biggest complains from the community to the admins. It also seems easy to implement (average rolls, not normal curve).

EDIT: the complains were so high that own Ivan made a thread about it too. http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=17795

Escrito por Permamuted, 25.12.2015 at 19:49

What's wrong with my graphs?

Escrito por EndsOfInvention, 26.12.2015 at 07:47

Escrito por Permamuted, 25.12.2015 at 19:49

What's wrong with my graphs?

He probably though that it was more than averaging two or more rolls.

Support, and bump.

Escrito por EndsOfInvention, 26.12.2015 at 07:47

Escrito por Permamuted, 25.12.2015 at 19:49

What's wrong with my graphs?

hahahaah. that dis from amok

Escrito por Waffel, 21.12.2015 at 10:06

@Clovis in this thread xaxa

Escrito por Permamuted, 26.07.2015 at 07:35

"inverse rankism" lol.

> makes guides on europe+
> tries to convince us he knows what hes talking about when it comes to the metagame.
> thinks hes the king of adapting and map/setting diversity.
> makes thread asking for italy expansions after playing eu for 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years!
> rank 12

LOL REPPED

Escrito por Permamuted, 25.12.2015 at 19:49

I talked to amok about the changes to the roll system. He confirmed the current system involves just 1 roll clovis.



He's not too into the whole idea. The current system is quite complicated and he is reluctant to tinker with it. Att/def values were determined by 2 rolls and the average of the 2 in the past however this was changed when hp was introduced. Amok told me he hoped this would lower the variance.

But basically with the current system, the higher a units stats go the less effective further increases are. Anyone any ideas on how to convince him on this or is it worth pursuing

i discover bugs and hacks and glitchs in the game and then we threat him?

please tell him to make it as an option for games so no one can get affected if he doesn't like this
and i accept anything that lows lucky bitching rate and increase skill capability for winning

Escrito por PleaseMe, 17.12.2015 at 11:35

Turn blocks have a significant impact on 3v3 and clan wars now. I personally don't mind turn blocks. It is a major game changer. After all, most of this game has to do with luck, so why would we take out the luck and input pure numbers? That's not how a real war is fought.

Imagine a General leading an army of 50. And one infantry turn blocks that whole stack, maybe because that one little infantry injured the General, so they had to stop for a while and couldn't continue. Because we all know armies can't be lead without a leader. So I am just putting into perspective, that it is possible for 1 unit to turn block. Even if the chance is only 2%, theres no reason to change this 2% to 0.002% because that's slim to nothing.

Stop rushing, start slow rolling, you wont have to worry about your 3 sea trans getting turn blocked.

LOL you never saw me crying in some game about rolls and tbs? ask laochra about the countless bullshits that happened to me

Escrito por SyrianDevil, 20.02.2016 at 16:02

Escrito por Waffel, 21.12.2015 at 10:06

@Clovis in this thread xaxa

Escrito por Permamuted, 26.07.2015 at 07:35

"inverse rankism" lol.

> makes guides on europe+
> tries to convince us he knows what hes talking about when it comes to the metagame.
> thinks hes the king of adapting and map/setting diversity.
> makes thread asking for italy expansions after playing eu for 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years!
> rank 12

LOL REPPED

Thnx, you're welcome.

Escrito por SyrianDevil, 20.02.2016 at 16:02

Escrito por Waffel, 21.12.2015 at 10:06

@Clovis in this thread xaxa

Escrito por Permamuted, 26.07.2015 at 07:35

"inverse rankism" lol.

> makes guides on europe+
> tries to convince us he knows what hes talking about when it comes to the metagame.
> thinks hes the king of adapting and map/setting diversity.
> makes thread asking for italy expansions after playing eu for 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years
> rank 12
> 4 years!
> rank 12

LOL REPPED

Thnx, you're welcome.