1984

This is the first and most important question for me after reading 1984.

Are they really part of Oceania which is at war with two other superpowers? (like we imagine Cold War)
Are they isolated UK while the rest of the world is normal? (like we imagine North Korea)
Is the Party actually controlling whole World but brainwashing people to think there is a war? (like we imagine ZOG world government)

Oh my god, we were debating something similar. For me, I always thought of it as completely true with the war and such but another person brought up that perhaps there is no war and the Party is simply using it for totalitarian reasons. I much prefer the idea of it being like North Korea, never thought of it that way before

I cant remember the specifics but i got the impression that there was some sort of agreement with the 2 other superpowers in order to maintain an ongoing war(thus maintaining the structure of society). It wasn't clear whether the party referred to some ruling union of all 3 superpowers or each superpower had its own party.

Escrito por Permamuted, 08.12.2016 at 12:09

I cant remember the specifics but i got the impression that there was some sort of agreement with the 2 other superpowers in order to maintain an ongoing war(thus maintaining the structure of society). It wasn't clear whether the party referred to some ruling union of all 3 superpowers or each superpower had its own party.

People of Oceania, or better to say Airstrip One(UK), are told they are atwar with either Eastasia or Eurasia, and they are aware that all 3 are so strong it is impossible for one side to lose, even if other two superpowers unite against them. So they are aware war is perpetual.

If they are told there are 2 more superpowers, we can conclude that they as well have ruling party with their ideology, they are told Eurasian ideology is 'Neobolshevism' and Eastasian is 'Death Worship/Obliteration of the Self'.

But none of them have connection to the army so they can never know if their military is fighting the enemy, only information about the war they recieve come from the TV news, which can be staged.

Which leaves us to ask ourself whether there's war at all.

Orwell was the boss, for creating a book like this, he gives you info, but doesn't give you exact picture, so it leaves room for you to think and guess. Perfect.

I just didn't understand if the Party/State is recruiting conscripts from the Outer Party/Middle Class, or from the Proles/Working Class/Poor. Because 80% of the population are 'Proles', and Outer Party is only 20% and they are specialized (to serve of course), but that makes me wonder, if they recruit proles, that requires extensive training as they are ignorant and undisciplines (they call them animals in the book).

For war of that size and longevity, it requires large army, but of course if war is a lie, than none. Maybe Party only have police and gendarmerie (armed police) which people view and think it is military.

Just a personal question, did you just read this book for the first time? You seem awfully interested in it. For me, I read it about 2 years ago and hated it up until the ending (no spoilers D=) at which point it became one of my favorite books (wish they could make a movie or series about it [I'm aware one came out in '84 but would like to see a model one ])

Escrito por Pheonixking929, 08.12.2016 at 15:53

Just a personal question, did you just read this book for the first time? You seem awfully interested in it. For me, I read it about 2 years ago and hated it up until the ending (no spoilers D=) at which point it became one of my favorite books (wish they could make a movie or series about it [I'm aware one came out in '84 but would like to see a model one ])

No i've read the book long ago, didn't pay much attention back then as i was a kid, but now i watched the move few days ago, for the first time. I knew for movie long ago, just never decided to see it.

My mother proposed it to me, along many others books, and advised me to read every book 3 times, one time when i am young, second time when i am adult and third time when i get old, and every time i will understand the book differently because of the life experience. So i guess i should read the book again. Though i'm afraid i must say, the movie already depressed me enough, book will just make it worse

Best part in the movie is when they see fat woman working on the street, Julia says she is fat while Winston says 'no, that's her style, she's beautiful'. Reminds me of our babushkas, skilled housewives/hosts, you know their home is always comfortable, warm and food is always tasty. So it always associate you fat women.

Escrito por Skanderbeg, 08.12.2016 at 09:42

Are they really part of Oceania which is at war with two other superpowers? (like we imagine Cold War)
Are they isolated UK while the rest of the world is normal? (like we imagine North Korea)
Is the Party actually controlling whole World but brainwashing people to think there is a war? (like we imagine ZOG world government)

The war is real, but its heavily implied that the "air strikes" are carried out by Oceania itself for propaganda reasons.

Why did O'Brien gave the book to Winston, only to torture him later? Was it a sting operation? If yes, then that mean there is no real resistance?

Very similar to this, how could George Orwell know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trust

Escrito por Skanderbeg, 09.12.2016 at 17:14

Why did O'Brien gave the book to Winston, only to torture him later? Was it a sting operation? If yes, then that mean there is no real resistance?

Very similar to this, how could George Orwell know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trust

I don't believe there actually is a "Brotherhood", I do think it was a sting operation. Think of Mao's Hundred Flowers Campaign when the government allowed freedom of speech, press, expression. It caused people to take tot he streets. Now could Mao have been testing this campaign to see what would happen? Did he think there was a chance he could remain in power? I'm not sure, but once they got out of hand Mao and the government immediately crackdown on them dispersing and arresting thousands of people. The campaign ended, Maoist orthodoxy was reimposed. And all the people who thought they could protest freely, most if not all of them who viewed Mao negatively, were immediately imprisoned or forever silenced. All of Maos critics and enemies were allowed to protest openly just so the state could figure out who they were and then crush them all at once

Escrito por Pheonixking929, 09.12.2016 at 18:06

I don't believe there actually is a "Brotherhood", I do think it was a sting operation. Think of Mao's Hundred Flowers Campaign when the government allowed freedom of speech, press, expression. It caused people to take tot he streets. Now could Mao have been testing this campaign to see what would happen? Did he think there was a chance he could remain in power? I'm not sure, but once they got out of hand Mao and the government immediately crackdown on them dispersing and arresting thousands of people. The campaign ended, Maoist orthodoxy was reimposed. And all the people who thought they could protest freely, most if not all of them who viewed Mao negatively, were immediately imprisoned or forever silenced. All of Maos critics and enemies were allowed to protest openly just so the state could figure out who they were and then crush them all at once

Lol, that reminds me of the story my grandfather told me. He witnessed the Russian Civil War and when Communists won and established USSR. He went to the pub and one punk (chronically unemployed protester and critic) was constantly rising vodka to toast Communism, Lenin and the Revolution. Every 2 minutes he was yelling and making a toast 'everything we have was given by Communism and dear Lenin', 'all this is by Communism, long live the revolution!'.
Then one farmer couldn't stand it anymore and just said 'what communism gave me? it just arrived, everything i have was made by me, all 1000 sheeps and 100 cows i have are mine, i milked them, i fed them, i nurtured them, i made them stables, i visit them every night when it is cold to check on them, so don't be stupid and lazy whole your life, get a job'.
10 minutes later police came and arrested him. Tomorrow my grandfather, when he was walking in the downtown, he met his friends and they were like 'hey have you heard? They executed that farmer who denied communism yesterday, for being a saboteur of the revolution and enemy of the people!'
The punk became town mayor.