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Some regions are kinda empty, such as the amazon or north africa. Obviously you can't magically manifest cities there, but if there are any extra cities in those locations that aren't represented on the map, that'd be nice. I'm in a game right now where the only reason I'm losing is cuz once I hit northern south america, I had no cities capable of reinforcing my army against north america, felt bad Oh, and canada too. Filling up the empty areas would be nice, if possible.

Escrito por sidjeqxd, 27.01.2011 at 14:34

Escrito por Colt556, 24.01.2011 at 07:58

Actually.. ever wonder why they never really fought over it to begin with? Cuz it's pretty well worthless. Especially the northern part, deserts, deserts everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_Campaign

Don't be a smart ass, they only fought in africa, not over it. They were fighting eachother in african territory yes, but they weren't fighting for control of africa for the sake of controlling africa. It really is a pretty worthless continent.

I've been using Blitzkrieg for a while now and I don't see a problem with it. As you pointed out if you go on the defensive you're screwed, but you are using Blitzkrieg as your strategy, you shouldn't be on the defensive. I think the main reason that strategy isn't used is because it is expensive as fuck, and a lot of players cry their eyes out of their units don't have insanely high stats, I mean just look at how marine users cried like hell when marines got 7/3 stats. So while it's under-used, I don't think it needs any buffs or anything, it's simply a strategy most players don't like. I'm sure those seven of us who actually use it realize how good it is.

Escrito por n00less cluebie, 27.01.2011 at 15:33

Hah.

Just because YOU don't see a particular way a unit can be used to destroy you, doesn't mean that that's how you should use it....

You're like a chess pendant who's complaining when I mated him in 14 with my queen because "you should only attack with your bishops and knights in the opening" and queens shouldn't be used that way.

If someone comes up with something that works....use it.

If you can't come up with a counter-strategy, then check to make sure that NOBODY else can, before complaining about it

The difference between your analogy and here is that you aren't using them in unique and interesting ways, and simply being a good strategist. You're abusing a broken game mechanic. If the marines were actually a unique unit with 7/3, and yet you still used them as a front-line unit and won, I wouldn't care. Because then they'd have the stats of a proper saboteur unit, you're simply badass enough to use them differently. But again that isn't the case, you're just abusing the fact that their stats make them an invisible tank instead of a proper stealth unit, that's not a unique strategy, that's not you just being a clever player, that's you abusing broken game mechanics, and using an overpowered unit to your advantage.

I don't know the details about the other units, but I do know the details about the marines, and that is what this is about. It's not about whether or not the stats on the other units are just, it's about whether or not the stats on the marines are. So don't try to pull a high and mighty card by saying I don't know what I'm talking about. I for one don't use infantry or marines, I use soley tanks. I don't defend my cities, I retake them. Again this is all with tanks that have 7/3 for stats. So I know from experience that it's more then possible to play and win using only a single unit with such stats. The fact that marines are fucking invisible? How you people can honestly be bitching about this is beyond me.

I mean am I really just that awesome of a player? Because in all the games I play I never have any problems with other players despite my tank's stats. Is this really such a MASSIVE issue for everyone else? Am I some prodigy at this game? I honestly don't get how I can use a unit that's clearly visible, with those stats and win every game with relative ease. Yet everyone else seems to find it impossible despite their unit being fucking invisible. I mean either I'm a god at this game or you're all woefully incompetent. Or the third option, it's not THAT big of a deal and if you actually played with those stats you're quickly realize you're not at that big of a disadvantage. I think option number 3 is the most likely, but you all just immediately cry your eyes out because your precious stealth-tanks can't do everything anymore.

P.S. And for the record I do take offense to the arrogance of the marine users. There are those who use units way weaker then your marines yet still come out on top, yet you guys DEMAND that your invisible unit be better then both infantry and tanks. If I can win my games with visible tanks that have 7/3 stats, then you marine users sure as all fuck can do the same with a unit that nobody can bloody see.

P.S.S. Eh, I'm done arguing. I was pushing for this because I wanted the marines to be a unique unit, not a tank that's invisible. But ultimately it's not a big deal for me. Unlike others I have no problem beating marine users and infact always stomp the shit out of them. So if you guys wanna deprive yourselves of dynamic gameplay by spamming the same unit as a tank general, only with yours being invisible, go for it. I'll still kick your ass with my 7/3 tanks. Makes my victories all the sweeter anyways.

This update makes them less like stealth tanks, sure it gives them the same damage as a tank but 2 less armor. Tanks are primarily offense yet can still defend if necessary, this update originally had marines as being a purely offensive, Guerilla style unit that can hit hard and fast at exposed targets. I don't know specifics about MoS but I can't imagine the nerfs to infantry or tanks are THAT severe, prolly only like -1 in the stats, which isn't that huge. A unit with -1 can still do it's job. In the end aslong as marines can be good at both offense and defense, they wont be a unique unit. They'll simply replace infantry and tanks, and if you think that's a good thing then you clearly don't understand the game. Learn to use marines accordingly and you wouldn't be bitching. As I've said so many goddamned times, my tanks have 7/3 stats but that doesn't stop me from capturing and holding cities, the fact that your unit would be invisible means you should have even more success.

Son, I am dissapoint how marines got a buff to their defense, oh well.

Also Cluebie, there most certainly are "should's" and "shouldn'ts" that's the whole point of each unit serving a specific role. Infantry shouldn't be used for offense, and tanks shouldn't be used for defense. You can still use them that way, but you shouldn't since they wont be as effective. Marines shouldn't be stealth-tanks, you can use them that way if you so desire but they should be inferior to actual tanks if you do. Also as I have said oh so many times, I manage to win game after game with tanks that have 7/3 stats, if I can do that with normal tanks, you guys sure as fuck can do it with INVISIBLE units.

As I put in my edit, as a Blitzkrieg user my tanks have 7/3 yet I can take and hold cities just fine, this is without the added advantage of my units being invisible. Also as I pointed out your goal shouldn't be to take cities with marines, your goal should be to get your opponent off balance. Disrupt their economy and production capabilities by hitting his cities and force him to pull troops from other areas to retake those cities and chase down your marines. While he's busy doing this you move in with your tanks and infantry like every other player. Marines are a SUPPLEMENT to your army, they shouldn't BE your army.

Gigglin, it's called adaptation. You're using marines incorrectly if they don't work, you're using them like tanks. They aren't suppose to capture enemy territory, they're suppose to DISRUPT enemy territory. If you go in and capture their cities and immediately move on to the next, they're forced to pull back forces to recapture said cities and kill your marines. If you want a straight up fighting unit build tanks and infantry.

Edit: Just a note for those who care, as a blitzkrieg user my tanks have the EXACT stats as MoS marines, 7/3. Yet I never lose against other players, sure I'll lose some battles, but I ultimately win the war. So please stop QQing about the stats as if it makes marines worthless, because there are those who use units with those same stats and do just fine. Also my tanks, while having the same stats, aren't invisible. Just remember that.

I don't know specifics with stats and whatnot, all I know is what I dealt with ingame. And if I attacked him with say, 2 tanks and he had a single marine, my tanks barely won. If I attacked him one on one, I lost every time. Whether he was in a city or not I ALWAYS had to have 2to1 odds in my favor to stand a chance. Now why this is, I assumed was because MoS + other upgrades. But the facts remain the facts, his marines slaughtered my tanks even though I was using tank general. Made me quite sad.

I see, then yeah in that case Blitzkrieg is awesome as hell. Since I'm almost always the aggressor my tanks don't really suffer that much, and they move really far.

I'm still not entirely sure how defense/offense stats work, if they're taken into account every battle or if it depends on whether you're attacking or defending. But so far I haven't seen that big of a difference. I can still take out neutral cities/armies with the same ammount of tanks, I haven't really gotten into a big battle with other players yet. So far I'm liking it, having all my units move so fast is really nice, but having tanks with 3 defense might prove a problem in the future.

It sounds good in theory but from what I've seen, the upgrades tip things too far in infantry/marine players advantage. I once fought a guy who was using master of stealth and had many upgrades for his marines. Only way I could beat him is if I had 2 tanks to every 1 of his marines. I can accept that marines/infantry get upgrades cuz by default they're weaker, but when those upgrades make them SO superior to tanks, tanks become the weak ones.

I mean the only real advantage tanks get is tank general, but even while using that those upgraded marines slaughtered me. So maybe tank upgrades shouldn't be as numerous or as good, but something would be nice. Or maybe marine upgrades are too strong. All I know is that when I have to outnumber my enemy 2 to 1 in order to win, something is off. Especially since marines shouldn't be able to best tanks. I mean the fact that upgraded marines are superior to tanks kinda defeats that "unique" thing I've read. As is upgraded marines are essentially invisible tanks, but then this is more for that master of stealth topic.

In the end, the upgrades don't seem quite balanced. Without upgrades marines are weaker then tanks, but then with upgrades marines are WAY better then tanks, seems like it's either one extreme or the other.

This isn't exactly the right topic, but it's a topic about upgrades so I figure I'll post here instead of making some new topic. But my question is, why aren't there any tank upgrades? Infantry and marines both get various upgrades, but why don't tanks? With upgrades infantry and marines can be FASTER then tanks, which isn't right (how can some guy running be faster then a tank that can travel at highway speeds?), I mean I don't use marines and I only use infantry for defending cities, so it's really a shame that my tanks can be so severely outclassed by marine users, or even infantry users, simply cuz they can upgrade their unit of choice while I can't.

In short, I wish there were upgrades for tanks, +speed, luck, all the upgrades the other land units get. Kinda defeats the point of having multiple units if the only way to win is to use the same unit as your opponent (course, then his will be upgraded and yours wont, so you'd still lose).

I used tank general for most of my games, but over time I started really hating how slow they moved. I mean I'm exceptionally aggressive and expanionistic, so while it was nice that my tanks were really strong and had a price reduction, once my territory got to a certain size it took AGES to get anywhere. While most of the time it wasn't an issue, it was still a pain to spend 5+ turns just amassing my army, and then another 10+ to get them where they need to be.

So I decided to try Blitz and holy jesus it's an answer to all my prayers. It only removes 1 attack from tank general, and since I'm always on the offense the negative defense doesn't matter all that much to me. But damn having my tanks move so far makes me such a happy panda, now if only tanks had upgrades like infantry and marine, so I could make them even faster. Tanks need upgrades so bad, but that's for another thread.

In short, blitz cuz it makes my tanks get to where they need to be supah fast.

We can't come up with specifics since we don't know all the intricates of code, but I'm thinking a good ball-park would be a tanks offense, but half it's defense. The way marines SHOULD be played is you sneak them in past enemy lines, hit the undefended cities that only have a couple militia, and then run like hell. This will not only disrupt your enemies income, but force them to pull forces away from the front lines to retake those cities, allowing you to punch through with your main force.

Marines are suppose to be gurrelia warfare, hit-n-run saboteurs not stealth-tanks like they are now. They should complement your military by performing a unique function, not replace it by being better at the tank's role.

Escrito por Amok, 25.01.2011 at 05:28

Escrito por Colt556, 25.01.2011 at 04:05

Reading your post, King, it made me think of changing Marines. Maybe instead of being equal to tanks (Honestly, they have almost the same attack and same defense)

Marines with Master Of Stealth:
6/6
Tanks with Tank General:
8/5

Don't look equal to me

Yeah well with that extra defense it's essentially 6/6 vs 7/5, close enough to being equal considering they're also invisible. All I can say is last night I was fighting a marine user, and the only times my tanks beat him is when they vastly outnumbered him.

I forgot to mention that he had put a bunch of upgrades into his marines as well, which more then likely played a crucial role. But that is also a problem since as far as I can see, tanks don't even get upgrades, so I don't even get the option to match a fully upgraded marine user. Only way to take on an upgraded marine user who's using MOS is to outnumber them two to one with tanks, and that's just bull.

As I said before, Marine's aren't a unique unit as is, they're "tank but stronger and are invisible", and as far as I'm aware that's not what this game wants. I'm glad to see others agreeing with my idea of making marines more hit-n-run and less "I'll go toe to toe with your tanks". Maybe with MOS give the marines equal attack to a tank, but say... 3 defense, squishy as hell but more then capable of dealing with militia and taking undefended towns.

Reading your post, King, it made me think of changing Marines. Maybe instead of being equal to tanks (Honestly, they have almost the same attack and same defense), maybe they should have decent attack, but very low defense, but fast move speed. I mean Ivan has stated that the units have to be unique, but as is the Marines play the same role as Tanks, only they're invisible. So if marines got absolutely demolished by tanks and infantry, their role would drastically change.

Instead of amassing thousands of marines and steamrolling your opponent, you'd send squads to the lightly defended towns as suggested above. I mean a LOT of people don't put units in their towns, just the militia that spawn and that's it. So if marines had really fast travel speed, they could zip in behind enemy lines and cap undefended cities, but if they were ever caught in a straight up fight against tanks they'd get their asses handed to them.

If it was that way, we'd have Offense (Tanks) Defense (Infantry) and Sabotage (Marines). Cuz I just played a game where I was fighting a marine user and it really was quite retarded. Even with my tank general strategy, I had to outnumber his marines to even stand a chance. The fact that marines can beat tanks and are stealthed really does seem broken to me. Why even bother getting tanks when marines have the same stats, yet are invisible?

Well adding scenario maps would be nice, but still kinda limiting. The main reason I made this thread is because I wanted to play a scenario from an alternate reality where there's different super powers from anything we know today. So adding scenario maps wouldn't help for instances like that, so simply allowing us to buy tons of countries would solve that. I mean there's an option to be able to pick 99 countries at the start, just need enough money to be able to actually pick that many countries.

Well... I still think making them a unit you can buy with SP would be better, I wanna mass produce mechs instead of lowely tanks How do cards work? Like, if I get a card for mechs does it allow me to build mechs in that one game? Or does it simply give me a few mechs to use and when they're gone, they're gone?

Some regions of the world are more valuable then others, ever stop to wonder why people stopped fighting over africa? Actually.. ever wonder why they never really fought over it to begin with? Cuz it's pretty well worthless. Especially the northern part, deserts, deserts everywhere. Your best bet is to focus on south/mid africa, and ignore northern africa.

I suppose, but then you'd have to make it an insane ammount to account for all possible scenarios. I figured allowing them to make every country free would be easier to implement, but what do I know Either way, something that allows players to select entire hemispheres at the start of the game would be nice.

I was thinking about making a private game with my friends to re-enact various things (Ala WW2), but I realized that the max amount of money you can have is like 50k, so you can't go and snatch up all the countries you want/need for your little scenario. So my suggestion is to add an option to remove country prices, so they're all free. That way, if the host wants, he can set up various scenarios where people can start with their correct nations instead of having to take the time to conquer them, and thus can jump straight into the action.

I'm not exactly sure what master of stealth does that makes it overpowered, but a suggestion mentioned that I think sounds good is to increase the detection range of spy planes. If you could adequately defend yourself with only a few planes that would be sufficient I think. I mean they're expensive but it's not like they cost thousands of dollars or anything, their price only becomes a problem because you need so many of them.

Sounds good, although I personally would like it if I could just buy it with SP, but hell I'm happy enough knowing I'll be able to use mechs eventually, thanks for the exceptionally quick (seriously o.o) responses.

Fair enough, but glad to hear that mechs will make an appearance, but what does 'rare unit' mean? Will it be a unit you buy with SP? A unit you gain from using a specific strategy? A unit gained by controlling a specific region? Or are we not allowed to know specifics? :O

I skimmed through and didn't see anything about it, and I'm not entirely sure it's viable since from what I can see this game is trying to stay real world. But.. what about a mech-type unit? It'd have strong offense and defense but be exceptionally expensive, and you'd have to buy it for a large sum of SP (Like other units). Might be a bit redundant, or simply not fit the theme of the game, but I figured I'd throw it out there and see what other people thought.

P.S. By mech I mean like Mechwarrior, big lumbering bipedal tanks essentially. Guess the specifics don't matter since they're just little pictures though, but it helps convey why I think it'd have high offense and defense. Sorry for the rambling.